TechTables Podcast
TechTables Podcast

Episode 77 · 9 months ago

Ep.77 Austen Allred: The Risk-Free Degree


Featuring Austen Allred, CEO Bloom Institute of Technology (fka Lamada School)

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Show Notes

  • Austen's unique perspectives on moving to the center of the outcome you want
  • The underrated power of creative effort in building a network
  • Is the degree worth the debt?
  • Why Web3 is the new oil field. 


I often think if you took the amount of work that goes into one class in college and spent that networking, you would outpace the total networking ability of a degree by 10X ~ Austen Allred 

We've done partnerships with Amazon for a back-end program and they want to hire as many people as they can... This is 100X that level of demand. No analogies to gold mines or oil fields can quite compare to what we're actually seeing ~ Austen Allred on the present and future of Web3 

Working retail and dealing with people is difficult; but those aren't the skills necessarily that are insanely valuable and lucrative. So if you can take that person who has the skills that they do have and layer on another skill set that's highly in demand, then those are actually some of our highest earners coming out ~ Austen Allred 

I wish we believed in things more and I wish we strived for things more. And, even knowing that we can be wrong, I think right now it feels to me like cultural skepticism and negativity outweighs almost everything else ~ Austen Allred

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Austin, welcome to tech tables. Super excited to have you on this morning. And so a lot of people know who you are and recently there was a rebrand from Lamba school. I still actually call it lambda. I just I'm trying really hard alone. I'm still wearing a lambda. We'll eventually face our way out of all the new old swag to new swag. Is a transition process. Yeah, so I'm the CO founder and CEO of what is now called Bloom Institute of Technology, what was called Lamb to school. But basically we're trying to provide the most direct, risk free path to high paying jobs in higher income that we can. Yeah, I love that. And to provide some context to Austin, actually dropped out of college and actually this, I actually also dropped out of college because I didn't plan it that way, but the costs just kept going up and uh, and I went for a hundred and twenty units. What you need to graduate, and uh, they just kept adding on requirements. You need to take this, you need take that, and then at some point I just said rather just go start making money. Then I think my older brother is literally free credits from graduate like one part time class, but at a certain point the degree is literally worthless relative to where I am now. I've had people tell me, because they don't really understand, but they're like, hey, you should go back and finish, and I'm like no, there's such a high opportunity cost. I love what I'm doing right now. I'm interviewing technology leaders and I work for myself, so I checked in with HR, which is myself, and we're good to keep going. Yeah, I was just trying to describe this you know, phenomenon recently because for some reason, in my mind, when you're early twenties, that opportunity cost is actually enormous. In my mind, where that was when I backpacked around China, that was when I lived in a car. That was like when I had so much of the fundamental life experience that makes me who I am and it makes me think of there's this Apocryphal Steve Jobs story where someone said, Hey, the computer takes thirty seconds to do it up. Is that a problem? And I don't remember the specific details, and he says, if you could save a life, could you cut that down to five seconds? Yeah, if I could save somebody's life, I totally do. And he does the math of. Okay, there are this many Mac users and if you can shave twenty five seconds off of every reboots, say they load up once a week, yeah, you're actually going to save a life. For me, if I can get you to the same outcome, college can get you to two years faster. Holy smokes right, like for every forty people I'm saving a life. That's eighty years of a very valuable time. And so I think we're focusing a lot right now on the cost of college, but the bigger costs in my mind, is actually the opportunity cost. We've got students graduating and then they go get three and a half years of job experience and they're making a hundred fifty K and their debt free and they've saved fifty grand and they're at that point by the time they would have gotten their undergrad degree and started their life. Not that money is the only way to measure things, but if I can shave three years off of the time you're spending in school if you don't want to be there, that's enormous. I love what you said. So outcomes, future income. I think the school system doesn't talk about the outcome. That you're chasing, why are you here and what are you trying to achieve? And then the second part is the income piece, and if you don't follow Austin, you should totally follow them. But you've got a ton of testimonials, but one recently was, I think, the future income stream. You spend thirty K with bloom but you increase your earnings by two million dollars over your lifetime. But I get that right. That's on the low end, right and yeah, which I think is fantastic. Yeah, I think, and this is one way that me and universities differ a lot, is I think about everything in terms of ur O I, risk reward, that kind of thing, and colleges get mad if you start using that math because they're like, no, that's not what we do. We provide this ephemeral thing that you should value, and that's fine, but then when it comes to I'm convincing the student to come if you need to do this, if... want to have higher earning power, and we need federal money because look at the look at how much more people make. And so it's the sales process. Is All increase your income on the front end and then you get in and they're like no, we don't do that, we're like here to provide life skills and experience all that. I have no problem with any of those things. Right. I think liberal arts degrees are great, unless you're saying hey, you need to come to school to make more money and then you're enrolling people in an English degree. There are a lot of universities that no good and that these paths lead to the same income you would have if you didn't come. And the sales process is still you need to do this to make more money. So it's just it's a fundamental misalignment. I love what you said about you had traveled through China. You'd backpack through China and early on when I was in college, I actually I did. I did a three or four week through France and at the time I took a semester course before. So what is that? Fifteen weeks and in that fifteen week period I'm learning French. I spent a month traveling through France and I learned more in a month than I did in sitting in a classroom just going with the book. It's not even close. So at B Y U, which is where I went to school, you can you can. They have a really strong language learning program because of warm admissions, but I actually qualified for a Russian minor without ever stepping foot in a classroom. If you talk to someone who spent four years you go to college and say I want to learn Russian and you compare that to someone who spent six months living in Russia, it's just not even close. The best schools will replicate a real, live learning environment to the extent that we can, and we do that, I think, really well at Bloom Tech. But yeah, there's still the notion that the only way you can learn stuff is within the walls of university. Is just obviously false and I think it's taking people far longer than I would have expected to wrap their minds around that fact. Can you learn a lot of stuff way faster than you can getting a degree, and that's true for me actually. I started to learn. Okay, so I can learn stuff a lot faster. I can learn the language a lot faster being in a different environment and because growing up, but whatever, elementary school, high school here in southern California, you have to take Spanish x number and then in college you've got to take a language. That was like that experience of traveling to France and then even some of the other countries later on, whether it was Japan or Korea, just being in that environment really impressed upon me. Okay, so I don't need four walls to help me learn, I just need to be in the right environment. So, yeah, it's kind of weird that we ended up in that place where that's every once in a while I'll end up in a conversation that you can't learn to program outside of like a CS degree. It's like you ever stepped foot inside of a tech company, and it's funny that in certain instances, the people who have a CS degree hold them in much lower regard than the people who don't, because they're like, okay, I know, I've learned some stuff, for sure, but there are absolutely other ways to learn that better faster, and so there's this imposter syndrome or Fomo. From the outside looking in, I'm like, Oh, if you have a CS degree, then you must know all these things, and people actually have the like yeah, not really. It's not bad, but it's by no me the be all end all of the educational computer science experience and even computer sciences. What does that mean? You can't say engineering because it's not sexy enough for professors to want to teach it. So you have to say it's a science and people get mad at me for saying that, but that's the reality. And I was before we we hopped on. I was talking about how I learned sequel and then one of the things, the other things I learned too, is since sequel gave me a foundation, and then what I did was, whether it's for web development or stuff like, I didn't have to know the language because I learned I could go to stack overflow and I could start putting stuff together, inspecting pages on Google, CRP Um, and then if I didn't understand something, I take...

...a block and I throw it into Google. And then there's Reddit. I'm just piece of mealing all this stuff together, and then pretty soon you're like, okay, cool, like I built a website, I did this, I did that. You can't know everything. It's just impossible to know everything. And I had a few team leads and pressed it upon me whether they're like, I don't know everything, but if you can figure out a way you'll find that information, then you're gonna be in a really good spot. Yeah, I think that's another thing that's unique perhaps about computer science. In some ways is like, by definition, almost your job is solving problems that you haven't solved before and in something you know, a lot of instances there's someone somewhere who has solved it. But it's more about finding a solution that works really well or creating a new solution. It's not something you can learn by rote memorization, and that's something that we have to beat out of people who are used traditional school system. Or you encounter a new problem and you say, Oh, I don't know how to do this, I need to go to school or go to a USS but like the way computer science works, the way programming works, you try stuff and I always tell our students the difference between a non technical person and a technical person is, or the difference between a programmer and someone who's not a programmer is someone who's not a programmer would look at that and say, Oh, I don't know how to do that, and someone who is a programmer says, oh, I don't know how to do that, let me Google around and try some stuff until something works. That doesn't come naturally for people who have come in a traditional school environment where okay, I need to learn these calculus methods and then I can regurrigitate them for an exam. That's just not what the career is. The career is you have a foundational tool set that you can use to go figure out how to solve this. But it's problem solving all day every day, which is really rewarding, but but just different than what a lot of people expect. Yeah, I love about problem solving because when I was a young kid, I had this is before Youtube, this is a o l wasn't really out yet and and I was a young kid and I would take my mom had bought me like a second genesis or something, and it didn't plug directly into the TV because it didn't have it didn't they didn't talk to each other. So I took a VCR, hooked it through the VCR and then into the TV, which you might be thinking, Joe, that's really easy now when you're like seven or six or seven and there's nothing you can google and you're just figuring this out and you're like put this in here, put this in here. That doesn't work. There's manual instructions you're reading. It's like in the back it's like how to connect other stuff. This is awesome and anyways problem solving. I love that. So I heard a story we were talking about before. You were living out of your car in Pala Alto. I did the same in San Jose. You were showering at a Y M C A. Yeah, yeah, and you were also engaged. So this is really funny. You were engaged living in your car. I was engaged, living in my car but showering at a twenty four hour fitness and playing basketball really early in the morning. So tell us what was a driving desire to make that MOVE TO SILICON VALLEY FROM UTAH? What was that dream that you had? Shout out to the Y M C A on Ross Road in Pale Alto. I think they gave me a pass for hand or eleven bucks a month or something, and then you could not only could you like work out and shower there, but they had all the soap and all the shampoo, which it sounds crazy now, but at the time I was so broke that I was like, oh my gosh, like I don't have to go buy soap. That would be two dollars and I'd be in trouble. Yeah, so I think I had I had learned in so I served an LDS mission in eastern Ukraine and then I had lived in China for a while and I tend to be a little extreme in most things. I had learned over time that I wanted to end up in in technology. I didn't know how to Code and I signed up for like half of those classes for one semester and I went to the first few weeks and I was like, either this is an extremely inefficient learning environment or this is not the way that I learned, or both. When I was like sixteen, I drove an hour and a half to hear some astronaut talk at some little convention that have...

...thirty people at it and for some reason that the thing that I remembered most from that was so the context is people were asking him, you got to outer space. That's awesome, like how did you get there? Surely there are all sorts of people who want to get to outer space. And they said, basically, I live my life by the philosophy of figure out what the most exciting thing is going on to me and then figure out how can I get into the very center of that, and that kind of informed my life philosophy as I thought about tech sitting in Utah, not with the skills that one would need to contribute to anything. I just realized if I want to have the life and the outcome that I want, I need to get into the middle of it. Somehow. I can talk to all the people interested about tech in Provo, Utah, and there is a scene there. It's a scene where everybody is really they're fighting from the aside, trying to be taken seriously, and it was growing and but I wanted to get into the middle of it geographically and physically, and just like go all in. Yeah, I had a two door Honda Civic, dropped out of college, had five dollars to my name, took my laptop, which was my most prized possession, drove out there, found a place to sleep and I just started figuring it out. It's a long path between there and now, but but it worked out. Do you approach problems where sometimes my wife, she has the mindset where she's she wants to know the whole route all the way to the destination, and I'm more wide where I'm like I just trust that, hey, this is going to work out, not that I'm just firing off any random idea, but I'm like Hey, I know this is it, and then there's gonna be a lot of turns in between. This happens on road trips, by the way. To my wife she always laughs. She's like classic turn, like I'm trying to find Einstein Bagel. I go off on the wrong road. Next thing you know you end up somewhere else, but it all works out. I like, it just always works out, and that mindset, I think is is really powerful. This is get a bridge real quick. There's the car and then you go and you're raising money for lambda. I know that story has been rehearsed. I just wanted to jump into the piece. Where do you remember, like how many pitches you had to do, the process like and still sticking with it to get lambda off the ground? Yeah, there's actually an interim where I you know, I was trying to start a company because I was you know, that was the end goal. It didn't work out and then I ended up getting a job in San Francisco working at a Tech Company. The number of nose I heard, I don't even know how I would count that because I wasn't even getting in the room. If there wasn't anybody to tell me no, just really. What happened is I found a couple of people who started to take me somewhat seriously, or I guess you could say they took me under their wing. or so. There's a founder of what was that in a tiny company? What is a multibillion dollars, super successful company. He saw that I was like living in my car trying to meet people, and he's like hey, I lived in a broom closet. Let's at least go to lunch. And so I went to lunch with him and he was basically like, all right, I recognize myself in you. This is exactly, you know, the type of person. Anybody you need an introduction to. Let's figure it out. And so he opened up a lot of doors for me that I called email infinite numbers of people, but there are no responses from anybody. I tried to remember that to the extent that I can. Like at the time I was like, why are these people not emailing me back? They can't be that busy, can they? And now I'm like, oh my gosh, they're so. They're like a hundred times busier than I had even thought it was possible to be and if your email even gets to the point where they instantly archive it, that's a win. But still like that, there there is something special about Silicon Valley and about a lot of industries where people know what it's like to break in and if you are actually if you're not talking about like you email Jeff Bezos, obviously you know your...

...emails are even going to be seen. But the average is currently on a boat right now. He's currently on a boat right now anyway, so it doesn't have service. But the average person, especially if they're not the CEO of a household company, they're actually generally receptive to meeting up, to helping out far more than you'd expect, and I think that's actually a hack that people don't realize, and this is something I tell our students. If you email ten software engineers senior manager level or below and say hey, I'm trying to break into the industry, I'd love to take fifteen, thirty minutes pick your brain, maybe I'll buy you coffee, you get like three of them to say yes, and like that. The fact that you can just build a network from nothing that quickly and at that level of quality is perhaps the most underrated thing. Ever, I often think if you took the amount of or that goes into like one class in college and spent that networking, you would outpace the total networking ability of a degree by ten X. it's just not even close. It's not easy right, it's awkward and you have to put yourself out there and I think a lot of the potential opportunity facing people in the US is largely a result of people not wanting to risk being dumb or being told no or facing failure. But all this, what all this was to say? How many times did you get told no face to face? Not Very many actually, the people who didn't take me seriously enough to respond to an email probably a ton, but I don't know or care. Yeah, I love that. I love I found, and I love what you said, the most kind of underrated hack and and I just recorded episode with Rob Lacatio, and I don't know if you know that name. He's the founder and CEO of live person. I have found this little company called live person and I was eighteen. He was like the first company ever invested in. The share price was two dollars of share, and this is so long ago. And then I don't know how it works, but I just message rob. Hey, rob, you've got this dream big event. I just actually through a live podcast event and the whole thing was dream big. I don't even know if you're gonna see this email, but I'd love for you to come on tech tables. Responds back to me and he's like Joe, I love to come on tech tables. And turns out once upon a time he actually ran a media company before he was running Ai Conversational cloud company. So you just never know. And he's had people in his life who have been there and WHO and so the same thing. When people reach out to Nicole, I love it. I respond. I always love to see if I can pay that back and I've had a number of folks that is an under underrated half, like the Jeff Bezos of the world might not respond, or Elon Musk, but there's a lot of people who, I think you would be shocked that would be like, I would love to whatever, come on or help or have an idea, and so yeah, and if there's a way you can provide value to them in any tiny way. I had one of our first one of our first hires ever was a guy who's like hey, he emailed a couple of times like I'd love to join the company to help create hiring partnerships, and that we were at the time growing so quickly. I was getting emails like that all the time, and then two or three emails later, he was like hey, so I have these seventeen companies that are ready to hire for your grads. I just, you know, started emailing them and found all them. Here's the list that they're all ready for you to just start sending them people. I was like, okay, I'm gonna hire this guy and I don't know how much work that took. Probably, I guess ten, Eleven, twelve hours, which is not a lot of them. You'RE gonna get noticed a hundred percent of the time and they'll have a conversation with you a hundred percent of the time. So you can provide if you can find any way to provide value. Yeah, that's even ten times more effective than Hey, I love to grab coffee. Yeah, and even just trying to walk through and think through what proble...

MS is. Everyone's working on problems that you might have a solution to and provide like a specific example of hey, here's how I would do this and then just giving that away, like literally giving them the answer, and then I found they want to bring you into the room just to have a conversation around how you think and maybe expand upon whatever that initial email was. Yeah, I'm with you. So I want to jump to economic inequality. I just want to get your thoughts on in this episode is a little bit different and I don't normally talk more tech, but I feel like I just have all these questions since I have you on here. But around entrepreneurship is being like I just want to get your thoughts around entrepreneurship being the best. Do you think it's like the best vehicle to help people bridge that gap for themselves in Future Generations to escape poverty? Love to get your your thoughts on that. Yeah, so they're actually a couple of questions there. The first is economic inequality in and of itself is an interesting measure. It is valuable for some things, but it's actually not valuable in the way that a lot of people are using it for a couple of reasons. The first is that oftentimes the measure that is used is who are the top earners and what are they making, versus what is the median learner, but it's not longitudinal, so you're not looking at and especially if you do it with net worth, there's a really interesting study um that showed that the gen whatever, Gen Z, on average has x net worth versus boomers who have wide net worth. And it's yeah, Gen Z is like twenty five years old and just graduating college and often deeply in debt, versus boomers who are about to retire. But if you take a, you know, backwards step from that, economic inequality does the same thing. What stage are we looking at in somebody's life are we measuring? Compound that with the fact that who is in those groups change far more often than we give credit for. The relation with age is just very strong. So if you look at the top ten percent of earners, they're usually old people and the bottom ten percent of earners are usually young people. Anyway, the broader question you're really trying to ask is people who are on the path to generational poverty or low earnings, is entrepreneurship the best way to get them to a higher status? And the other thing that's really interesting is if you look at the disappearing of the middle class, adjusted for inflation, kind of incomes. What we really see is the middle class becoming poorer. What we really see is the middle class disappearing because everybody is getting more wealthy and the lower class, like the lowest earners, who are stuck. You know, minimum wage hasn't moved, but the person who would be earning forty dollars two generations ago is now earning a hundred thousand dollars, even adjusted for inflation. People are doing better than they used to, except for some of the low earners that are just stuck. In my mind, one of the best ways to solve that is actually, first and foremost, just get the people who are low earners to upper middle class, and that's actually I see that happen a half dozen times a day and you can do that in six months for ten grand if you apply the right school and the right learning or sometimes it's twenty or thirty or something like that. The solution that we have right now is to put all of those folks into low performing universities and saddle them with a bunch of debt. That's fundamentally not working. It may work on average better than nothing, but it's just incredibly inefficient and the people for whom it doesn't work, it's life altering, career ending, financially ruinous. So in my mind's a couple of things. It's folk saying on the...

...right solution to get people to the right career paths and if that's the goal and actually admit that's the goal and create a solution where that's the goal, and a four year university is not that in most instances, and then it's actually de risking that process. So the problem we have right now, and I talked to our students all the time, or our prospective students, and it's yeah, I am bought in on the idea that if I go to the right school and I study the right thing, I will end up on a good path, and so let's assign that an eight percent likelihood of being the outcome. And then the likelihood is that I'm financially ruined for life and I can never recover and I die in poverty. That's not a bet I'm going to make. So the first thing we need to do is actually eliminate the risk of if, if this doesn't work out for me, am I ruined forever? That's step one, and then step two is focusing on the right thing to to move people to the middle income roles where skills are absolutely required. I think Eric Adams got slammed for saying something a couple of weeks ago. Lower income earners don't have the skills to be in the corner office or and you got in all sorts of trouble because the implication is that people with low incomes have fewer skills. That's both true and not at the same time. They have very important and meaningful skill I mean work in retail and dealing with people is difficult, but those aren't the skills necessarily that are insanely valuable and lucrative. So if you can take that person who has the skills that they do have and layer on another skill set that's highly in demand, then those are actually some of our highest earners coming out of bloom tech are people who come from random backgrounds. It's not necessarily I'm a the biggest shifts aren't I am a I'm a product manager and I and to learn to code so I can be dual threat. Those people do great, but the people who actually crush it are having a salesperson for fifteen years and I'm gonna Layer on code to that person is insanely valuable. So it's interesting. Yeah, and the reason why I was asking this is so I actually coach high school basketball and and so I'm with high schoolers right now during the season six days a week and, Um, you can imagine, I always joke with executives like van rides are are super important because this is when you really get to the heart of the team. So I was I gotta get grown ups in vans, but right now I've got fourteen, fifteen and sixteen year old on the JV team having in vans. And so you have these conversations where this this legacy past of Hey, my parents are in this service industry. They don't make a lot of money. I think me and they say, Hey, like you're doing something different. You work from Your House. My my parent has to go to fast food restaurant or whatever. And I'm constantly trying to like and I'm willing to spend time with them. Some of them have actually, like, really great ideas and and I just don't see like the school system encouraging those ideas and they just encourage them to show up and sit in their share. And there's a lot of great school administrators in high school. Obviously I see them on a weekly basis, but I think about this a lot, whether it's entrepreneurship or technology of and then actually, hey, how can I motivate these kids who could actually end up changing their life totally? But I love I'm probably gonna pass this episode off to them just so they can think that they might listen to half of it or or or a third of it, but it might be better than the music they're listening to. So I think, I think exposure is a lot of the problem. Right, we have like when I grew up, the possibilities that were out there were painted entirely by the people that I was surrounded by. So in my mind, the average person ends up working. And I look at my neighborhoodhood and my church and all the people that went to, you know, elementary school with me. The average path is you go end up working in...

...a machine shop or, if you're smart, you'd end up as a welder or a carpenter or something. And then the really top income earners, they are accountants or maybe doctors or maybe lawyers, and that was all I knew. Is, Oh, I'd rather be a lawyer than a school teacher. I'll be a lawyer. If I would have known that you could be a software engineer who builds APPs in Silicon Valley, I would have been like, oh my gosh, yeah, my entire life going there, but it wasn't a thing. Programmers were the people that fixed computers and printers and stuff. That's what a programmer was in my mind growing up, and even if I went back for the neighborhood I grew up, you're still not exposed. You probably have a phone now, which is different than how it was before, so you see APPS, but you're not exposed to you know, the world that I'm surrounded by, where it's totally reasonable to make six figures doing most things. I had no idea that entire world existed, let alone all the depth and intricacy that's there. I know we're coming up on on time and I know you're I see your latest tweet over there about time blocking. I am a fan. I am a fan of time blocking. I did want to hit on real quick and then I want you to talk about the web three. I don't know if it's out yet or coming soon, but I do want you to talk about that. For folks who are interesting. I just did a two see I oh interviews for the C I o for the city of Boston and then the city of Philadelphia, and that we were diving into blockchain and web three and it was a great conversation. And then people were emailing me and I said, Hey, I actually got another conversation for someone who could actually train you. That's really funny. But real quick, I caught this article in the Wall Street Journal the power of purpose driven schools. It's actually about private Jewish school. My kids actually go to a private Christian school, but I was curious if you've seen like religion and and education propelling students further in life, if you see there's like any correlation. I just was curious with your experience with bloom to date so far? Yeah, I think I thought about this a lot. I've attended religious schools and went up public schools all growing up. There is something special about when people are either coming from similar backgrounds and coming together or and that's somewhat powerful. Or I think the most powerful is when you have a group of people striving towards the same goal and when it's exactly the same goal. And so the level of Camaraderie that I've seen happen within lamb school and bloom tech is something. We got criticized a lot in the early days for everything being cult like right, and I shied away from that and I tried to make sure that we weren't culture a bad thing generally speaking. But I do think that not just within schools but within really the whole of the United States and perhaps the world, it is rare that people believe in anything that they believe strongly, and I don't care whether it's religion in or whether it's politics or whether it's a way of life. My generation, I would say, has become so skeptical of everything that it's rare to have people believe in and strive towards something bigger than themselves themselves, and I think there's a serious lack of that and when it's there it's extremely powerful. And so when you get a group of people who believe in something and are working towards something together. I would look around my peer group. Not Enough of them have experienced that and it's extremely powerful if you can either create that environment or enable that or cause that to happen or even gather groups of people who feel similarly, whether it's virtually or in real life. I think that's that's something that we neglect too often. And then, more broadly, I wish we believed in things more and I wish we strived for things more and even knowing that we can be wrong. I think right now it feels to me like culturally, skepticism and negativity outweighs almost...

...everything else, and that's sad. I'm a hundred percent with you. One of the things I really like about the school that my kids go to they have this they're kind of Christian education philosophy and it shares very similar across a lot of stuff, but intellectual preparation, spiritual formation and strategic influence, and a lot of the core of that mission is around excellence and I don't see oftentimes a lot of folks who a really believe but also want to do excellent work. And and and actually I've got this little post it here for those who are a live in Austin through a live podcast event at Austin city limits, I believe. So for those who know about why the whole belief thing was Ted Lasso had come out and then I know a lot of people have watched it with the theme of belief. But yeah, I think if you can, you said it best right. It's really powerful when you have that conviction and that belief. People are attracted to conviction and belief and then if you can marry that with whatever endeavor you're doing that's really good, then it's gonna be really powerful. I think people crave that, especially for another podcast, but I think a lot about community too, is being very powerful for just keeping a group together. And my little microcosm of kids, these ten kids now on the high school basketball team, I try instill to them it's great that you can be beat someone one on one, right, but my job is the coach, is to get you ten kids to believe that you can win together. And every season is so funny because every season you do this, you have to go do the same thing like coach k puts the best vers, you can have all of the plays, you can have the best plays, but if you can't get the team to really buy in and believe, so the XS and Ohs, everyone can get that down at some point on some level, but if you don't really believe you can win as a unit, then Um, you just won't go far it just doesn't happen. I love that. So let's wrap up and I've loved there's so many questions but I'll just have to keep jumping in on your tweets. But I just talk about the web three class that you have coming out timeline, maybe application process. The high level is web three. I think there's certainly a lot of hype around web three and, interestingly, even compared to the early days of the Internet, the fundamental thing that is special about web three is ownership and incentives are embedded deep into the fabric of what it is. So the net result of that is there there's far more money and demand and excitement than there is ability to build things, which I just talked about how people don't believe in things enough. Like this is the inverse of that. There's money, there's excitement, there's demand, everything is there. So it's a difficult course for us to build because there's not an existing framework there. It's just so new and it's such a fundamentally different rid I'm and it's so hard to find experts in Crypto have been doing this maximum six months to a year just because everything shifts so quickly. But we've got our curriculum together. We're building. I think we've got the first unit together and the idea is that it's something that people who know how to, you know, build some things, can layer on web three quickly in your part time, so you don't have to quit your job or anything. So nights and weekends without a ton of time commitment. We've seen our engineers get hired away, our engineers who get into crypto get hired away for half a million dollars a year. It's just a wild space right now and their skeptics around the space, but I fundamentally think it will change the way the Internet works and Computing Works and the world works, and so it's it's just an incredible opportunity and I think a lot about how times now are different than times in the past, where the fact that we can train somebody from zero and in six months they can make six figures, that's a historical anomaly. Versus the rest of ever and with... permission and no credentials, you can go from nothing to six figures in six months. That's wild. But now with web three, ten x that where if you are an engineer can you can enter an entirely different world of folks who are building things in a completely new way and all of my mental models don't transition well into web three. It's just a fundamentally new and different thing. I don't think anybody can predict where it ends up or what it looks like five years from now, and that's a beauty of it is you can be along for that ride and shape it. And I do think the analogy to you. You're starting to build stuff on the Internet in you can't even imagine what twitter would be in that context yet and you can't imagine what podcasting is. We're very infancy. So it's really exciting. Okay, and is there a I think they're be a coming seam page. I have it in this dock. But yeah, if you go to bloom tech dot com, slash web three. Um, I don't think we've formally opened applications yet. We need to. It's been a it's been a course to hire instructors, for first and foremost because there are so few people with instructional, design and learning background. But the more important thing is because if you're really good at this stuff, you can make your opportunity. Costs is outrageously high. So we're making sure that we have all of that nailed down and then applications we formally opened. But it should be launching q two, so bloom tech dot com slash web three. It will definitely be when it comes out. The instructional design effort that we've put into the curriculum, the number of companies excited to hire folks. On the other side, we've done partnerships with Amazon for a back end program and they want to hire as many people as they can. This is like a hundred times that level of demand. It's just I don't even know how to no. No, analogies to gold mines or oil fields can quite compare to to what we're actually seeing. It'll be wild. It'll be fun. I'm excited. Any pre rex that you need? I know sequel. Can I sign up for this and I'm excited about it. What do I need to know? Or maybe you're like, Hey, you actually need to know X, Y Z before you jump in to get the most out of it. You should really know how to build like a web application. So you should, you know, be the target is first and foremost, like if you are an engineer, this is perfect for you. If you should become an engineer, to the extent that you can. I love that. And and and part of these. I already know what the answers are because it's all on the website, but I always love just asking about tuition. I'm sure it's super affordable. I'm seeing that that's what it's looking in ten weeks. Super Flexible course, Yep, part time we'll be. We'll have live we don't really do lectures, we do guided projects. So we'll be building stuff and in this instance we'll be editing smart contracts and building smart contracts live and then if you know, for any reason you can't make that live session, it's all recorded an available asynchronously and all that good stuff. Yeah, flexible. There there will be a real community, a real it's not just here's the content and good luck. It's a it's an actual school. Yea, now I love that. Okay, and for those who are interested in this web three course, I'm gonna Link to the get notified page and then when it goes live I'll update the website again, because I know folks episode seventy three how public sector CIOS are transforming smart cities through blockchaining. Web Three. I got a lot of really great feedback. People love that that Linkedin live, that we did, so I want to link to this. I know people are really excited about this. So, Austin, thank you for coming on. Where can people find you? As twitter like the best spot is the best. Okay, I'm on Instagram, but that's like the stuff that I share on twitter that I remember to also share on instagram. So, so twitter. I'm Austin A U S T E N, like the feminist author on twitter. Awesome. Thank you for coming on tech tables. That's super excited to have you on.

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